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[edit] archiving
- I have altered the way this page is archived. Future archives should be saved with the format :[[Talk:Communism/Archive 13]]. This will cause them to be automatically added to the archive box. I also noticed there is some very recent talk, only a few days old, in the archives already. Time should be allowed for all interested parties to comment before threads are archived, you can always archive older sections of the page and leave newer content. Beeblebrox (talk) 01:55, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
The maps in Cold War and Crisis are better than they were before, (a few months ago), but I feel they could further improved. I suggest these amendments: section: Cold War = map: File:Sino-Soviet split 1980.svg; section: Crisis = map: File:Sino-Soviet split 2008.svg. It lets people see that countries like Vietnam and Laos moved from Russian control to Chinese and that Cuba did not follow that path and instead became independent and that North Korea, which had been independent before, is now allined with China. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.226.115.81 (talk) 18:31, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
- Although not officially communist, South Africa has been run by devoted communists since 1994 - that's for 15 years and with no end in sight... Could we have a different map showing countries currently run by communists although the are officially 'Republics' or add those nations to the map of Communist countries but with a different color and an explanation? Mozambique might also make it on that list... And Angola, and Namibia. Invmog (talk) 18:14, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
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- Well, there can't be any "might " or "maybe" about it. First we would have to compile a list of countries that have been identified as communist by reliable sources. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:49, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Template
Bobisbob2 tries to replace the picture in the lead with the navigation template Template:Communism sidebar. But it is not usual to start an article with such a thing (MOS:IMAGES: "Start an article with a right-aligned lead image or InfoBox," not with a navigation template even if it looks like a box). Moreover below in the article, he removes the Template:Communism with exactly the same items as Communism sidebar. In my opinion, the template Communism is more conform with other Wikipedia navigation templates and less disturbing, therefore I prefer it over the Template:Communism sidebar. The article should conform with WP:MOS but I do not wish to start an edit war over such a silly thing like a template and therefore I ask other colleagues for their insights and help.--Ioannes Pragensis (talk) 17:21, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
- While the MOS does say to start with an image or infobox, it does not specifically say not to use a navbox. I think in this case it does make sense, as the navbox is to help users understand what Communism is, and a picture of Marx does not accomplish that. This is the top article of the entire Communism category and should aim at helping readers understand what Communism is. I notice the same thing is done at Fascism. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:43, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
- I do not understand your logic: If MOS says "Start it with A", it _does_ (at least in my eyes) exclude the possibility to start it with B. And the fascism article is still B-class, therefore I do not see it as something to follow.--Ioannes Pragensis (talk) 20:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
- Your initial remark seemed to imply that the MOS specifically said not to do this, which it does not. In the spirit of WP:IAR I think the article looks and works better with the navbox there, regardless of what the MOS says. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:20, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
All of you are right —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.224.111.164 (talk) 16:19, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
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- By why do you think that for example a picture followed by the template (as in the Czech Wikipedia, [1]) would be any worse - and this solution is conform with MOS, which is a huge advantage? The declared goal in the Todo list is the Featured status, which is hard to achieve without being very careful about MOS.--Ioannes Pragensis (talk) 20:39, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
- I'm not really concerned with the articles "score" in the rating system, but rather with it's utility. That being said, if I was more knowledgeable with such things I would just construct an appropriate infobox. I have seen infoboxes related to ethnic groups and so forth that have little "photo montages" at the top with numerous relevant persons in them. One of those with Marx, Lenin, etc would be good along with whatever other appropriate information, but as I said I'm not very skilled at such things. I also note that Democracy and Socialism use navboxes in exactly the same way, so we would actually be bucking the trend by changing that here. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:50, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
- You are true that in political / philosophical articles, these navboxes in the heading are very common, but I think that it is caused by the lack of good infoboxes in this area. I hope that it will be solved in the future. The navboxes are useful, but as a part of the text, they present a problem not only because of MOS, but also because it is virtually impossible to keep them in good WP:NPOV shape; for example the current Communism navbox is clearly Marxist-biased and it is not clear how to select personalities or communist ideologies without some degree of POV.--Ioannes Pragensis (talk) 10:39, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Book "Rogue State"
If it's okay I want to add a link to William Blum's book called Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower because it shows how America went about forcing every attempt at social justice & equality (Socialism & Communism) to fail by starting over 50 wars, teaching torture, & lots more. Stars4change (talk) 02:41, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
- I think that this is a theme too marginal for this article. Almost every historical event in the 20th century has a connection to communism, but we should have only the core themes here. Perhaps this book should be better discussed in Cold war.--Ioannes Pragensis (talk) 08:39, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
[edit] What about the population in 1900?
Something that bothers me is that I seldom see anything about the way China was using land & the number of people in China in 1900 or 1920 or at some point (China almost a billion, US in 1900 had only 76,000,00 & in 2009 only 300,000,000) wasn't that a big factor in WHY China wanted Communism? Weren't there so many people (close to a billion) that were subsisting on small plots of land that it was more obvious there than it was in America, which had a small population & lots of empty land, that the ideal for China would be to have Communism, where large communities would all live & work on the communally-owned land by large groups of people working together, possibly working fewer hours for each person? And also, weren't they fighting against the few "richest" elite owners of the largest amounts of land, factories, etc, in China whom they had to "overthrow", which led to the violence? And couldn't some, or all, of that violence have happened because they had poor communication at that time (no TV, radios, & other faster means of communication) to teach all people at once how communism would work? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States Stars4change (talk) 02:41, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
[edit] NPOV tagging
Per User:Radeksz: 'this article is still POV as long as it doesn't discuss "actually existing communism" in lede'. If this refers to states, is counterfactual since the last ¶ of lede does address both former Communist and current "communist states". If it refers to communism as an ideal is also counterfactual since the first sentence of the lede explictly addresses the distinction. Also the tag was placed without creating a/this thread for the discussion it implies. Non-state communism is addressed in various articles related to socialism which is prominently linked early in the lede. For these reasons have removed the tag. Please state your specific POV complaints here. Lycurgus (talk) 13:02, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
- Wish I didn't have to but pointing out here that if communism implies statelessness then obviously no state could actually be communist. 72.228.150.44 (talk) 13:35, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
[edit] External Link
Tonerwiki (talk) 18:23, 17 June 2009 (UTC)Global Museum on Communism
[edit] Difference between communism and socialism
The section 'Difference between communism and socialism' is not well-written. It doe not site any references and it's mostly written in first person. Moreover I feel it reflects more of personal views than siting facts. 71.175.124.93 (talk) 05:02, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Communism&diff=297934280&oldid=297310233
- I agree, removed.--Ioannes Pragensis (talk) 11:43, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
To-do list for Communism:
